To my many dear Christian friends who do not understand why some of us find your great day offensive, please read on:
Responses to to keepitsimple on HorsesAss
This I know, Because of the birth of Christ,We have hope,That all the prophecies are true.
Including hell and the fires of Armageddon. Now that is scary!
Believing that on the same cloud he assended to heaven he will return and we will be with The Lord forevermore. Just because you don’t believe dosen’t mean it won’t happen
Aha, so now we are at polytheism. How is this different from Gilgamesh? Why should I care that YOUR God might be real rather thna that Sahaddia, Ashera, Odin, or Hanuman is real?
Do I get t choose or will He get mad if I prefer Raven to as God so bllody minded as to commit suicide to save me?
just the way the bible says. God will not be mocked.And it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.God has always been God, He is God now and will be God when your vapor of life is over. Have no doubt He will judge ,rule and reign over His whole creation.
nuff said. I choose Ashera!
What has a person got to lose,If you give God this life, And live eternally with God,Surely you are intelligent enough to know it just makes life better
To lose? Ask yourself! If Judaism is correct, your post is blasphemous and Hashem (the unnamed God) is gonn be very angry with you.
Choose this day whom you will serve.MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
Gad, you make me want to hide!
3 comments:
(In response to a posting about Matthew 21 over at HA)
SeattleJew
Actually, I've always assumed that that particular bit of scripture was aimed at anyone, most especially Christians, that made all the right pious noises but didn't actually do what we've been so plainly told to do.
Some of the lawgivers of that time said all the right things, but when it came to actually helping the poor, visiting the sick, and working for justice, they were conspicuous in their absence.
So, no, I would have no problem with your re-write, and actually assume it to be what was meant.
(cross posted at horsesass.org)
@55 John
Well, you may presume that, BUT IT IS NOT DIRECTED ATR YOU.
I really do not want to dwell on this, but much of the Christian bible is as offensive to me as contemporary antisemitic writings in the Arab press or the words of Martin Luther.
The same problem exists in the Quran that accuses the Jews of Yathrib (Medina) of perfidy to justify our being murdered or enslaved. Moderate Muslims excuse this too, saying it does not refer to modern Jews.
Can you understand this? Some Christians have approached this problem by doing historical research in an effort to reconstruct the historic Jesus. There is good reason to believe the "Jesus" and "Hillel," the better e4stablished founder of rabbinic Judaism and leader of the Pharisees, are derived from common individuals who resisted Rome in the name of Judaism. I personally think it is very unlikely that the Jesus of the CB, even without the miracles, was a real person but do suspect he was one of the more radical and outspoken followers of Hillel. This would explain the role of James as an antagonist of both Paul and the Temple.
Of course that version creates the opposite dilemma since it leaves Christianity without its core beliefs in a man-god. For all the quelling, it is bigoted not to recognize the profound good that belief in a loving Jesus has done. Western civilization IUS based on its Christina roots, even if in some of the most important stories the best of our civilization arose in rebellion against that root.
To me, if I may advise a Christian, the best answer lies in accepting the horrible way the life of Jesus was recorded and the history of the organized church. I rather like the ideas of the Gnostics ... of Christianity as a very personal religion, a relationship of man to a loving God who does not need a priesthood or a canon. This has led some wonderful people, Paigels and Armstrong among them, to preach that Christians can accept what YOU want to believe while discarding the accretions that are so hateful.
Whether what is left is supernatural, inspiring image of a loving God or a dimly seen effort at humane growth under Roman suppression, as long as what comes out is intense and humane I can admire that.
Ok, but then you would have to say that it isn't directed at you either.
A strict reading would say that it was only directed at the immediate people at that coversation.
Of course, that's nonsense. It's directed at religious leaders that insist on strict adherance to the law, but, even knowing what the law is based upon, refuse to actually do what they know is expected of them.
At the time of that particular conversation, it was directed at the ruling religious class, which happened to be the Pharisees.
But it obviously wasn't written into the gospel and handed down through generations so that we can pick on the descendents of those Pharisees.
It was handed to us as a clear warning that religious leaders are held to at least the same standard as everyone else.
So, if the religious leaders aren't following the simple directions "do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with your God", or in the New Testament, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself", then they don't get a pass just because they are Priests, or Pastors, or Ministers, or Rabbis, for that matter.
In fact, the clear implication is that religious leaders are held to a higher standard. Teachers of the law are expected to know what the law means.
In the situation in Matthew, the teachers of the law are being told that they've fallen down on the job, and that even the prostitutes and tax collectors are doing a better job of following the true meaning of the law than they are.
A deliberate slap in the face of those teachers? Absolutely! Just as it is a deliberate slap in the face to today's version of those same folks.
Remember that just as the Hebrews of old considered the words of the Prophets to be valid even beyond their deaths, we consider the words of Jesus to be more than just history.
They're directed as us, today, right now. We're expected to look at ourselves and ask "am I doing the work of God, or am I just mouthing the words?
And if I'm just mouthing the words, then the prostitutes and tax collectors will enter the presence of God before I do.
After all, I'm expected to know better.
Isn't that what we often find ourselves arguing about? Religious leaders that preach the gospel, but cannot get past the letter of the law to the real intent, even after we've been told so very clearly what that intent is.
We'd rather go on condemning folks that break some particular law (while conveniently ignoring all of the laws that we ourselves are breaking) and completely ignoring the fact that we've been told in simple, straightforward words that what is asked of us is not obedience, but love and understanding.
What you read as a condemnation of a particular class of Jewish leaders is actually a clear warning to all religious leaders.
And if you see it as being particularly aimed at Jewish leaders, and I see it as being aimed at Christian leaders, we're probably both right, and maybe we'd better listen up.
We're being warned.
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