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HorsesAss.Org » Blog Archive » Even Unfriendlier Skies: "74. SJ spews:

Artfart

(cross posted to SJ)

We mostly agree on thge two sides of the situation in Palestine/Israel.

I think, however, that the analogy to South Africa fails … Jimmy Carter has recently apologized for making that error in his recent book.

In South Africa, Apartheid was based on race. No African, no matter what his culture, could become “white.” There is no issue of racial identity in Israel.

In South Africa, the white majority wanted to confine the kafirs to a unsustainable bantustans. Zionists have always wanted a Semitic brotherhood based ion equlaity of Arabs and Jews.

Moreover “Palestine” as a nation is analogous to White SA. There were no (arab) Palestinians prior to 1948. The term “Palestinian” meant Jew. The Arabs rejected the creation of a Palestinian state, occupied what we now called Palestine and annexed to Jordan and Egypt. The idea of an Arab Palestinian state originated with two Egyptians … Nasser and Arafat … as part of a war of attrition between ALL the Arabs and Israel.

History is .. the past. Arguing today about whether the Zionists of 1880 were right or whether the arabs of 48 were right is probably futile.

What Jimmy Carter, and you, have made very clear is that ALL of us need to see and try to end the suffering of the Palestinians.

My problem with “progressives” is that they foster more war by demonizing Israel … just as the evangelicals foster war by demonizing the Palestinians. I have yet to meet a self proclaimed progressive who is a member of Peace Now, the movement to create two peaceful states.

I believe peace will come. I see only one way that can happen. The Palestinians must reject Hamas and openly seek peace. To do this they also need to take over their own government. This can happen either under a dictator with broad support and good intentions or under a democracy.

The formula must give the Palestinians a viable state. YOU AND I AGREE THAT THE 67 BORDERS WILL NOT DO THAT. Palestine, however, is surrounded (on three sides) by affluent neighbors with more than enough land and resources to make a viable state. A viable state, moreover, nbeed not depend on its borders for its economy ..Israel certainly would not be viable without trade with Europe and the US! A viable economy including Jordan and the Northern Sinai is EASY to imagine … once we all agree that WAR-WAR is hard on Palestinian kids.

So, yeh, it is not hard to imagine an economic solutions to the mess in Palestine. An economic entity including Jordan and the Sinai has GREAT promise. This will NOT happen as long as the unholy coalition of progressives and irridentist Muslims insist on their view of justice."

75. SJ spews:

@73 Puddy’

yes BUT your fundie friends are doing nothing for peace when they demionize Hamas.

Here is a challenge …

are YOU a member of Peace Now? Are ANY fundamentalists who claim to love us Jews willing to work with us to make peace?

Or is the friendliness toward Israel onlky toward our far right believers in eternal war and Armageddon?"